Reality Studies
Urgent Futures with Jesse Damiani
Eryk Salvaggio & Caroline Sinders: Glitching AI, Algorithmic Resistance, Labor Activism, Art as Research, & Feminist Technology | Urgent Futures #13

Eryk Salvaggio & Caroline Sinders: Glitching AI, Algorithmic Resistance, Labor Activism, Art as Research, & Feminist Technology | Urgent Futures #13

🎙 Jesse is joined by polymath artists/researchers Eryk Salvaggio & Caroline Sinders for a wide-ranging conversation about the role of artists in society, the importance of artistic research, and AI.

Welcome to the Urgent Futures podcast, the show that finds signal in the noise. Each week, I sit down with leading thinkers whose research, concepts, and questions clarify the chaos, from culture to the cosmos.

The best way to support the show, you ask? 🤓 Pop over to YouTube and hit that Subscribe button. You hear it all the time for a reason—nothing will help the channel grow more than that simple click.

My guests today are Eryk Salvaggio & Caroline Sinders.

Eryk Salvaggio (

) is an artist, writer and researcher interested in the social and cultural impacts of artificial intelligence. His work, which is centered in creative misuse and the right to refuse, critiques the mythologies and ideologies of tech design that ignore the gaps between datasets and the world they claim to represent. A blend of hacker, policy researcher, designer and artist, he has been published in academic journals, spoken at music and film festivals, and consulted on tech policy at the national level. He is the Emerging Technology Research Advisor for the Siegel Family Endowment and a 2024 Flickr Foundation Research Fellow. Eryk's website is

Caroline Sinders is an award winning critical designer, researcher, and artist. They’re the founder of human rights and design lab, Convocation Research + Design. For the past few years, they have been examining the intersections of artificial intelligence, intersectional justice, systems design, harm, and politics in digital conversational spaces and technology platforms. They’ve worked with the Tate Exchange at the Tate Modern, the United Nations, the UK’s Information Commissioner's Office, the European Commission, Ars Electronica, the Harvard Kennedy School and others. Caroline is currently based between London, UK and New Orleans, USA. 

What role do artists actually play in society? What about in the development of AI? It’s easy to speak in vague, grandiose terms about the power of art, but when do the actual actions, techniques, and interventions of artists amount to real-world impact? I’m not saying that art needs to lead to impact, but it’s important that we’re clear about the moments it does so that we can learn from the ways it did and to what extent it was successful. More broadly, it helps us see the unique ways that art can communicate ideas within society.

Across their multidisciplinary practices, Caroline and Eryk embody the possibilities of the arts—and artistic approaches—as agents for culture change, for producing new ways of thinking, seeing, and being. As you’ll see in the conversation, there are multiple topics I could have gotten into with each of them that would have amply filled an episode.  For this conversation, I was especially keen to get into the subject of AI with them, jumping off from their shared work in ARRG, the algorithmic resistance research group, which has as its goal to explore the creative misuse of Generative AI, Machine Learning, and other automated data analysis systems. This artistic “hacking” approach to AI feels vital right now—in which I and many others feel we’re at a foundational moment in collectively determining our values and policies around machine learning technologies. Efforts like ARRG, as well as so much other amazing stuff they each respectively do, offer necessary alternative ways of imagining, which—at least hopefully—help the rest of us orient ourselves toward realizing futures we actually want.

🎧 Audio versions of the podcast can be found Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like what you hear, please subscribe!

Support Reality Studies:

NOTE: Thank you for supporting my work by purchasing these products through the links provided. I will only ever share products I actually believe in.

ZBiotics: Right now, get 10% off ZBiotics. Just head over to and use code JESSEDAMIANI. If you have an evening with drinking and a morning you need to feel fresh, I strongly recommend these.

Genetically engineered by a team of PhD microbiologists, ZBiotics is a probiotic drink that breaks down the byproduct of alcohol responsible for rough mornings after drinking (acetaldehyde).

NordVPN: Right now, get up to 71% off + 3 months extra through this link. Some people tell me that “VPN” brings to mind ideas of hackers and the dark web, but honestly VPNs are just an extremely easy way to stay much safer online. I’ve used NordVPN for the past four years, and appreciate what they offer, including Threat Protection against malware, 24/7 customer support, fast speeds, and more. One account can protect up to 6 devices (phone and computer), and they don’t track or share what you do online. Another benefit: you can always access the content/apps you have at home, wherever in the world you are.

Mission Farms CBD: Mission Farms CBD crafts full-spectrum CBD products for specific conditions like sleep, stress, and discomfort, using a combination of CBD and terpenes found in essential oils. I swear by this stuff: I take one of their Marionberry Lemon gummies to end each day.

There’s a lot of junk CBD on the market. All of Mission Farms’s CBD comes from a small farm in Bend, Oregon. They farm the hemp organically, tend every plant by hand, and test for purity four times: the soil, the hemp, the hemp-extract, and the final products. This CBD is designed for wellness and it shows. Go to this link and sign up for emails to get 25% off your first order.

CREDITS: This podcast is edited and produced by Adam Labrie and me, Jesse Damiani. Adam Labrie also directed, shot, and edited the video version of the podcast, which is available on YouTube. The podcast is presented by Reality Studies. If you appreciate the work I’m doing, please subscribe and share it with someone you think would enjoy it.

Find more episodes of Urgent Futures at: Past conversations include Taylor Lorenz, Lia Halloran & Kip Thorne, Cherie Hu, Lisa Messeri, Legacy Russell, and more. Here is the latest episode with scientist/mycologist Danielle Stevenson:

Reality Studies
Urgent Futures with Jesse Damiani
Welcome to the Urgent Futures Podcast, the show that finds signal in the noise. Each episode, I sit down with leading thinkers for dialogues that clarify the chaos, from culture to the cosmos.