Reality Studies
Urgent Futures with Jesse Damiani
The Meaning Crisis: Wisdom, Purpose, and AI in 2025 and Beyond - John Vervaeke | #38
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The Meaning Crisis: Wisdom, Purpose, and AI in 2025 and Beyond - John Vervaeke | #38

🎙 Jesse sits down with renowned professor and public intellectual to discuss the nature of intelligence, rationality, wisdom, meaning in life, relevance realization, intelligent machines, & Socrates.

Welcome to the Urgent Futures podcast, the show that finds {signals} in the noise. Each week, I sit down with leading thinkers whose research, concepts, and questions clarify the chaos, from culture to the cosmos.

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My guest this week is John Vervaeke.

John Vervaeke is an associate professor of psychology and cognitive science at the University of Toronto. John researches and publishes on the nature of intelligence, rationality, wisdom, and meaning in life, emphasizing relevance realization, non-propositional kinds of knowing, and 4E (embodied, embedded, enacted, and extended) cognitive science.

A few years ago, deep in the pandemic, I encountered a YouTube series called “Awakening from the Meaning Crisis,” by a professor in Toronto who I’d never heard of. Like so many, I was reeling from the Trump years and the sense of precarity wrought by the pandemic—not just its impact on global infrastructure, but in how it laid bare the social alienation, animosity, breakdown of consensus, and deep traumas of the modern condition. So it’s not surprising that I decided to watch the first episode.

Of course, if you’ve also watched this series, you know how this story goes. Some 50 odd hours later, I’d consumed a profound exegesis on how to genuinely live a life full of meaning—and that professor who I’d never heard of, John Vervaeke, had become (parasocially) a favorite professor. It would be a fool’s errand to try to capture the wealth of integrated philosophy, evolutionary neuroscience, consciousness studies, spiritual exploration, and general provocations about reality that you’ll find in the series, though of course I recommend you watch it. Or better yet, buy the new book of the same name—based on the series but extending it, thanks to deeper reflections by John and his coauthor Christopher Mastropietro, who John claims is an even more gifted storyteller than he is.

Grab your copy of the 'Awakening from the Meaning Crisis' book here:

I’m especially grateful for this book because it led to John traveling to Los Angeles on a book tour, where he graciously lent an afternoon for us to discuss the meaning crisis, his personal journey, and so much more. Seriously, so much more—this is the longest episode of the show thus far. So buckle up!

Some other episodes you might like:

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Guests on Urgent Futures are experts across art, science, media, technology, philosophy, economics, mathematics, anthropology, and more. We live in complex times; these are the voices who will help you orient to emerging futures.

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CREDITS: This podcast is edited and produced by Adam Labrie and me, Jesse Damiani. Adam Labrie also directed, shot, and edited the video version of the podcast, which is available on YouTube. The podcast is presented by Reality Studies. If you appreciate the work I’m doing, please subscribe and share it with someone you think would enjoy it.

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Find more episodes of Urgent Futures at: youtube.com/@UrgentFutures. Past conversations include Taylor Lorenz, Lisa Messeri, Legacy Russell, William E. Rees, Renée DiResta, and more. Here is another recent episode with energy expert Art Berman:

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