Welcome to the Urgent Futures podcast, the show that finds {signals} in the noise. Each week, I sit down with leading thinkers whose research, concepts, and questions clarify the chaos, from culture to the cosmos.
The best way to support the show? 🤓 Pop over to YouTube and Subscribe. You hear it all the time for a reason—nothing will help the channel grow more than that simple click.
My guest this week is Rodolfo Dirzo.
Rodolfo Dirzo studied Biology at the University of Morelos, Mexico. He completed his Masters (M.Sc.) and Doctorate (Ph.D.) in Ecology at the University of Wales, Great Britain.
He has been a Professor at the National University of Mexico (UNAM), where he was researcher and chair of the Evolutionary Ecology Department, and Director of the University’s Tropical Research Station. Currently he is a Professor at Stanford University, where he teaches Ecology and Natural History, Field Ecology, Conservation Science, Bio- Cultural Diversity, and Science in Spanish.
His research centers on the study of the ecology of plants and animals and on the impact of human activities on natural ecosystems, including disruption of ecological processes, plant and animal extinction, and how this affects ecosystem services and human wellbeing. Most of his work is carried out in Latin America, the Central Pacific, East Africa, and Northern California. His research involves local indigenous and rural communities from the countries where his study sites are located. He also runs science education programs for students from under-represented communities in Northern California (e.g., “STEM for Latina Girls”).
As a member of the National Academy of Sciences’ Board on Science Education, he participated in and co-authored the nationally adopted Framework for K-12 Science Education. He is member of the Mexican Academy of Sciences, the US National Academy of Sciences, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the California Academy of Sciences.
A few months ago, I hosted Gerardo Ceballos and Paul R. Ehrlich, two of the authors of Before They Vanish—a book outlining why biodiversity is so critical to life on Earth, how it’s imperiled, and what we can do about it. I had originally hoped to have all 3 authors in the mix, but one of them—Rodolfo Dirzo—was, fittingly, out in the field. Fortunately, we were able to get some time to chat after he’d returned. We spoke extensively about his background in ecology, the tragedy of biodiversity loss, and in particular: defaunation. It’s a term he coined to describe the loss of animals (fauna) across all the various forms that can take: ranging from extinction and extirpation to local population declines. You’re probably familiar with the term “deforestation”—think of defaunation as a sort of counterpart.
As a lover of words, I think having the right word for the concept is critical in communicating necessary ideas. In this case, defaunation gives us a means to understand animal loss on a spectrum. Think of it this way. Even though a species might not have been totally eradicated, a dramatic drop in its numbers might have a whole host of knock-on effects, throwing an ecosystem out of whack. If our only metric for “caring” about animal populations and biodiversity is extinction, we’re missing critical danger signs that an ecosystem has been imperiled. Defaunation, then, allows us to understand the notion of animal loss in a more ecological sense—and measure for it.
I love that doing this podcast gives me so many chances to learn, but I have to say, learning just how vital biodiversity is to all life on Earth, and how much human activity is destroying that gift, has truly come to haunt me. Yes, we need to vastly reduce carbon emissions, but overshoot is about much more than energy transition. There’s so much vibrant life on this planet that we can still work to save, and that will require us to take a host of different actions—personal to political, individual to collective—but at base we have to recognize that our true wealth is not measured in dollars, but biodiversity. This is something that ‘Before They Vanish’ really hammers home for me, and why it feels so critical to share the work of leaders like Rodolfo Dirzo.
Another episode you might like:
If you’re loving the Urgent Futures podcast…
Please subscribe + leave a review on your preferred podcast platform! Or recommend it to a friend who might like it. All of it help the podcast grow.
Guests on Urgent Futures are experts across art, science, media, technology, philosophy, economics, mathematics, anthropology, and more. We live in complex times; these are the voices who will help you orient to emerging futures.
🎧 Audio versions of the podcast can be found Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like what you hear, please subscribe on those channels!
Support Reality Studies (Black Friday Sales):
NOTE: Thank you for supporting my work by purchasing these products through the links provided. I will only ever share products I actually believe in.
Health & Wellness:
ZBiotics: Right now, get 10% off ZBiotics. Just head over to zbiotics.com and use code JESSEDAMIANI. If you have an evening with drinking and a morning you need to feel fresh, these are a great help.
Genetically engineered by a team of PhD microbiologists, ZBiotics is a probiotic drink that breaks down the byproduct of alcohol responsible for rough mornings after drinking (acetaldehyde).
MUD\WTR: For Black Friday, get 50% off discount on starter packs using this link. There’s four different blends to choose from, but my current favorite is :rest. “This is our protest to hustle culture,” they say, and that resonates with me. Not only does it actually help me ramp down to sleep, but since I froth a little milk and make a latte with it, I get the warm cozy feeling of morning coffee at night. (For the evening tea drinkers out there: I’m not saying it’s better, just different!)
Mission Farms CBD: Right now, get a special Black Friday 40% discount sitewide using this link. Mission Farms CBD crafts full-spectrum CBD products for specific conditions like sleep, stress, and discomfort, using a combination of CBD and terpenes found in essential oils. I swear by this stuff: I take one of their Marionberry Lemon gummies to end each day.
There’s a lot of junk CBD on the market. All of Mission Farms’s CBD comes from a small farm in Bend, Oregon. They farm the hemp organically, tend every plant by hand, and test for purity four times: the soil, the hemp, the hemp-extract, and the final products. This CBD is designed for wellness and it shows. Go to this link and sign up for emails to get 25% off your first order.
Digital Hygiene:
NordVPN: Right now, get up to 74% off + 3 months extra, starting at $2.99, using this link. Some people tell me that “VPN” brings to mind ideas of hackers and the dark web, but honestly VPNs are just an extremely easy way to stay much safer online. I’ve used NordVPN for the past four years, and appreciate what they offer, including Threat Protection against malware, 24/7 customer support, fast speeds, and more. One account can protect up to 6 devices (phone and computer), and they don’t track or share what you do online. Another benefit: you can always access the content/apps you have at home, wherever in the world you are.
1Password: Listen, I know from personal experience that password managers don’t make for the most riveting dinner party conversation, but I need to express 3 things: 1) They make your life so much easier—it’s called “1Password” because once you get set up it’s the only password you’ll ever need to remember again. 2) They make your online life so much safer, ensuring that you use unique passwords for every account, stored with a high degree of encryption. 3) They are not nearly as complicated to set up as you think they are! Head over to 1Password using this link for a free trial, and individual plans for less than $3/mo after that.
CREDITS: This podcast is edited and produced by Adam Labrie and me, Jesse Damiani. Adam Labrie also directed, shot, and edited the video version of the podcast, which is available on YouTube. The podcast is presented by Reality Studies. If you appreciate the work I’m doing, please subscribe and share it with someone you think would enjoy it.
Find more episodes of Urgent Futures at: youtube.com/@UrgentFutures. Past conversations include Taylor Lorenz, Lisa Messeri, Legacy Russell, William E. Rees, Renée DiResta, and more. Here is another recent episode with beatboxer and new media artist Harry Yeff (Reeps100):
Share this post